Welcome to a new episode of Champion of Performance Marketing! I’m Julia Draghici, and today, I’m thrilled to sit down with a very special guest, Jonathan Bouchard.
Jonathan is a true expert in affiliate marketing with years of experience in email marketing, media buying, and more.
In our chat, he opens up about his journey, from starting in the industry to building his own successful email lists and handling various campaigns.
We dive into his favorite strategies, the highs and lows of email marketing, and what it takes to keep things personal with an audience. Jonathan also shares some fantastic tips on email marketing, tracking, using AI, and how he keeps his campaigns relevant and profitable.
If you prefer listening to our interview, here are your quick links:
Check the interview on Spotify:
So, let’s jump in and hear all the insights Jonathan has to offer!
Q: How did you start in affiliate marketing?
Jonathan Bouchard: I think my online marketing journey goes back to 2012 when I was running my own products.
That’s when I learned about Facebook Ads, email marketing, and advertising in general.
And I think it was just a normal progression that, at some point, I discovered affiliate marketing. It was like love at first sight for me.
Running my own products meant that every time I sold something, I had to handle the fulfillment, which took time away from the marketing side, which I enjoyed more.
Affiliate marketing solved that problem, I could focus on marketing only, and I was instantly hooked.
But it took a few years before I could make it work, to be honest.
Q: What kind of campaigns did you run when you started out in affiliate media buying?
Jonathan Bouchard: When I started, I was all over the place. There was so much to learn, and I felt overwhelmed.
There are so many different verticals, geos, and traffic sources… push traffic, sweepstakes, pop traffic, and Facebook traffic. You can run dating, casino, weight loss, and so on. I didn’t know where to start, so I tried everything to figure out what I liked.
One of my first campaigns was push traffic on a sweepstake, and I remember my first conversion was on an Ikea sweepstake.
And I’m still working with the same affiliate manager from ClickDealer. She kept sending me offers, and we decided to try one offer after another until something worked.
Q: When testing these offers, were you doing campaigns with direct links or with landing pages?

Jonathan: I split-tested both, but I think the first conversion was a direct link.
For many affiliates, that first conversion is when you realize, “Okay, this is real.”
Until then, it’s all just theory. You read about other affiliates’ success stories, but when you make your first conversion, it’s like: “This is real, and maybe those stories are real too.” Then you’re one of them. That feeling becomes a reality for those who stay in the game, are consistent, and make it work.
That feeling becomes a reality for those who stay in the game, are consistent, and make it work.
Q: What types of campaigns and traffic sources are you running now?
Jonathan: Right now, it’s mainly iGaming. I’ve gotten really good at iGaming, media buying, and weight loss, it’s evergreen. That’s what I focus on right now.
For iGaming, it’s email marketing. Everything I do now is through email marketing. I started with direct linking, then moved to bridge pages, but I wasn’t collecting emails. For those who run ads themselves, they know that advertising costs are always going up, and with all the spy tools, competition is fierce. So, when I began collecting emails, I created a source of traffic that only I controlled, even if competitors copied my landing pages. They can’t copy my email list.
And I can reuse it for more campaigns.
Before, I’d make just one conversion. Now, I can send emails daily with my email list, and sometimes users make two, three, or even four purchases. That’s what really helped me become more profitable.
Q: And then on that email list, you go on promoting affiliate offers. So, you buy traffic to build the list, and then you use that however you want.

Jonathan: Correct. When I started in affiliate marketing, like with sweepstakes, I realized I was building lists for someone else. They were collecting the email addresses because with email marketing, they can sell different products. Eventually, I became my own offer owner, building my own email lists instead of building lists for others.
I have a few big lists, but each one is dedicated to a specific vertical. That’s crucial.
If you build an email list for one topic, stay relevant with that content. If someone signs up for weight loss content and I start sending casino offers, they won’t be happy and will likely unsubscribe. So, if you sign up for weight loss, you get weight loss content.
Q: I think you also started or worked with an agency at some point, right? How was that? Did you find it more rewarding to work as an independent affiliate media buyer?

Jonathan: I started an agency because I couldn’t grow my affiliate business the way I wanted. I hit a glass ceiling, a revenue limit I couldn’t break through.
Some friends who run agencies suggested I do client work. So, I tried it.
It was nice to be paid for work and not just results.
As an affiliate, you only get paid when you make a sale, but with an agency, you’re also paid for building landing pages and creating ads. In consulting, you’re paid for giving advice, and you don’t need to spend money to make money, you’re trading time for money, which was interesting for a while.
As an affiliate, you only get paid when you make a sale.
But my DNA is too much media buyer, too much affiliate. As affiliates, when we have a campaign that works, we go aggressive, spend more money, and try to maximize it.
Some clients, though, don’t have that appetite; they’re afraid to spend more. For smaller clients, even $5,000 per month is stressful. If you suggest increasing to $20,000, it’s overwhelming for them. They don’t trust the revenue will be worth the investment.
Plus, the type of copywriting I’d use in ads and emails is often too aggressive for those new to marketing. They want everything polished and brand-friendly, which I understand, but you also need content that converts.
For example, if we have a deal that expires on Sunday, I’d send emails reminding people daily until Sunday. For some, that’s aggressive, but for us [affiliates], it’s normal. If you don’t remind them, you’ll make fewer sales.
Some might see it as annoying the customer by pushing too much.
But if you don’t do it, you’ll make fewer sales, and it’s frustrating if you’re not earning enough. That’s why I returned to affiliate marketing only. Now, I just do affiliate marketing and consulting for friends and colleagues.
Q: Do you work by yourself, or do you have someone helping with the copy and creatives? You use AI to help you?
Jonathan: I have a few freelancers for websites, server stuff, and landing pages, programming, changing language on landing pages, that kind of thing.
I use ChatGPT, but only recently. It’s great for coming up with angles or customer research. You can ask ChatGPT: “What are the top problems someone has who wants to lose weight with the keto diet?” and it’ll list out problems.
It helps with initial ideas, but I usually rewrite parts manually.
I don’t use chatGPT too much because I focus on a few verticals, like iGaming, so I know what content works. Sometimes, I ask chatGPT to create ten versions of an email that perform well, which is helpful.
chatGPT is great for coming up with angles like: “What are the top problems someone has who wants to lose weight with the keto diet?”
Q: What challenges did you have building your email list initially? Is it straightforward now, or were there specific obstacles at the start?

Jonathan Bouchard: In the beginning, building an email list came with significant challenges, most people building lists through paid ads face the same ones.
When you’re using paid ads, you’re putting a lot of money upfront with no guarantee of an immediate return.
You’re not seeing a “day one” ROI, where you invest, and then suddenly, the list makes you money.
You might bring in a little revenue from a small offer or something similar, but that’s just part of the initial process. If you don’t understand the long-term value of list-building, it might look like you’re just losing money every day. But the reality is, you’re investing in something that will be profitable over time.
Having a budget upfront is critical.
A budget and a plan to monetize your list as you build it is essential. It takes patience and realistic expectations because you can’t assume you’ll put $1,000 into ads, build an email list, and instantly turn that into $5,000 in profit. That just doesn’t happen.
You need a significant number of subscribers before you’ll see a break-even point and then eventually profit.
That’s one of the biggest challenges I see. Some people will build up an email list, say they reach 500 subscribers, and they’re still not profitable. They keep spending on ads to grow it, and when the profits don’t come fast enough, they give up.
You need a significant number of subscribers before you’ll see a break-even point and then eventually profit.
It’s common for people to give up if they don’t have a clear strategy. If they don’t understand the investment part of it, they won’t get to the point where they’re profitable.
Q: Many affiliate media buyers are buying traffic to build a list and simultaneously running offers through email. It’s an ongoing process, right?

Jonathan Bouchard: Yes, and that list needs to be maintained and updated regularly.
Think of it like the software you’re building: you’re putting in a lot of time and money upfront without expecting an immediate return.
But you don’t feel like you’re wasting time or losing money because you know that, eventually, you’ll have a fully developed product that’s ready to make money.
Building an email list is similar: you have a building stage that requires investment, time, and patience.
Your email list is almost like your product. It’s an asset you’re developing, and as you grow it and nurture it, the more valuable it becomes.
If you think of the email list as your “product,” the better you build and maintain it, the more you’ll get out of it in terms of revenue down the line.
Your email list iIt’s an asset you’re developing, and as you grow it and nurture it, the more valuable it becomes.
Q: And what, in your opinion, makes a good email list? What elements or steps go into creating an effective list? When you’re collecting emails, how do you attract quality subscribers?
Jonathan Bouchard: Well, it starts with having a good lead magnet, something that gives people a clear reason to sign up.
Depending on the vertical, this can vary. Sweepstakes or bonuses tend to work well.
For instance, in the casino space, you might offer something like: “Sign up and get a $100 bonus if you spend $100.”
People are attracted to things they can win, so bonuses like that work well.
For a weight loss list, I might offer a free recipe book, like: “My 10 Best Keto Recipes.” It’s a valuable freebie that gets people interested, and once they’re on the list, they start receiving more content that’s relevant to them.
Bonuses and freebies make signing up a no-brainer, and that’s really the key.
The email content has to stay relevant to what they originally signed up for.
If someone subscribes for keto recipes, they should keep receiving keto-related content. If they signed up with the idea of winning a bonus in the casino niche, the content should stay focused on that topic. Sending unrelated offers, like a sweepstake for an iPhone to a keto-focused audience, would make subscribers feel misled and cause them to unsubscribe.
Q: So, would you say that relevance and consistency in what you’re sending them are essential?

Jonathan Bouchard: Yes, absolutely. Relevance is everything. People subscribe for a specific reason, so keeping the content in line with their interests is key to maintaining a good list. If you stray from that, they’ll lose trust and interest, and your list will start to shrink. Staying true to the content they signed up for is what keeps them engaged.
The more relevant your content, the more likely they are to click through and make a purchase.
With a well-built list, you’re not only gaining their interest but also setting yourself up for repeat conversions.
For example: if someone’s on a keto list and buys a keto product, they’re more likely to buy another keto-related product in a few months if you’re consistently offering valuable content. You’re creating a lifetime customer relationship by keeping the content relevant.
Q: That brings me to my next question. What makes an email marketing campaign successful?
Jonathan Bouchard: The first thing is relevance. Your emails need to be aligned with what the subscribers signed up for, relevance is number one.
The second reason is more economic: email marketing works best when I can promote multiple offers to the same user.
I can promote multiple offers over time. This approach gives each subscriber a lifetime value.
Without an email list, if you buy a keto supplement from me, that’s one sale only.
But if you’re on my email list, maybe two months from now, you buy another keto product. Then three months after that, you might buy yet another.
So instead of just one sale, I’m getting multiple sales from the same person.
And the best part is that with email marketing, you’re barely paying anything to promote these products, because email marketing is so affordable. You’ve already paid to acquire the subscriber, so the extra sales don’t have the same high costs as ads do.
Without an email list, if you buy a keto supplement from me, that’s one sale only. But if you’re on my email list, maybe two months from now, you buy another keto product.
Q: So once you have the list, you can keep using it to send different offers over time. Do you typically send multiple offers in the same email, or do you focus on one product per email? What have you found to be more effective?
Jonathan Bouchard: I usually rotate different offers through split-testing.
For instance, with keto supplements, the emails aren’t about the product brand directly; they tell a story.
If you’re familiar with the content on landing pages for VSLs (video sales letters) from platforms like ClickBank or MaxWeb, you know it’s always a story format. The email might introduce the story, but the goal is to get the subscriber to click the link and watch the full video.
The VSLs tend to be long videos, but they convert.
I might write something like: “A doctor discovered this new method that burns fat…” then say:
“Click here to watch the video.”
They click the link, which takes them to a video, and from there, the conversion happens.
Sometimes I rotate offers in the background, so people are directed to different VSLs. When I find one that converts really well, I stop the rotation and send all traffic to that single offer.
I love split-testing, especially with email traffic.
Q: Yes, I love split-testing too! I wanted to ask, is tracking as crucial for you as split-testing is?

Jonathan Bouchard: Absolutely. I split-test constantly. Every day I’m rotating campaigns in different geos and with different offers. I check the results, and whatever works best gets the most traffic.
Tracking is necessary. You really can’t make decisions without data; it’s like flying blind. You need to know what’s working. Without data, it’s impossible to understand what’s working, where to put your budget, or which offers to prioritize.
And there’s something interesting I learned through media buying and email marketing: I am not the customer. I’m not the one buying keto supplements, or playing in an online casino, for example. My tastes don’t matter, the customer’s preferences do. I can’t look at two landing pages and think: “This one looks better, so it must perform better,” and just send traffic there. That would be a mistake.
With split testing, I can test both options. Sometimes, the nicer-looking one wins, but sometimes the simpler one performs better.
Without that split test, I wouldn’t know, and I could end up sending all my traffic to an offer that only converts at half the rate of the other.
In a split-test rotation, for example, I might be testing two or three different offers.
If I see one is generating 50 cents EPC and another is bringing in $3 EPC, it’s an easy decision. It doesn’t matter if the landing page is plain or fancy, if it has a higher EPC, that’s the better option. The numbers tell you the truth.
It’s all about data. It’s about what actually converts, not what we think should convert. Tracking makes that clear.
Conclusion
That was the first part of our interview with Jonathan Bouchard. His insights on data-driven email marketing, audience engagement, and the affiliate marketing landscape have given us much to think about.
Stay tuned for the second part of the interview in the Champion of Performance Marketing, where we’ll continue exploring the strategies that shape the future of digital marketing.
You can get in contact with Jonathan on Linkedin or Instagram!
Here is the full interview on Spotify so you can easily listen to it.
Here you can find the full interview with Jonathan:

Author: Julia Draghici
Julia is the CEO of CPV Lab and CPV One ad trackers. She has 15+ years experience in the software industry, from development to management. For more than 6 years she is helping marketers get the best out of their marketing campaigns by using a performant ad tracker. Passionate about entrepreneurship, business and performance marketing, Julia loves helping people!