{"id":11441,"date":"2024-11-19T09:55:08","date_gmt":"2024-11-19T09:55:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/?p=11441"},"modified":"2024-11-19T17:35:37","modified_gmt":"2024-11-19T17:35:37","slug":"jonathan-bouchard","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/champions-of-performance-marketing\/jonathan-bouchard\/","title":{"rendered":"The Art of Affiliate Marketing: An Interview with Jonathan Bouchard (Part 1)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Welcome to a new episode of <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/category\/champions-of-performance-marketing\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em>Champion of Performance Marketing<\/em>!<\/a> I\u2019m Julia Draghici, and today, I\u2019m thrilled to sit down with a very special guest, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/iamjonathanb\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Jonathan Bouchard<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jonathan is a true expert in affiliate marketing <strong>with years of experience in email marketing<\/strong>, media buying, and more. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In our chat, he opens up about his journey, from starting in the industry to building his own successful email lists and handling various campaigns.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>We dive into his favorite strategies, the highs and lows of email marketing, and what it takes to keep things personal with an audience. Jonathan also shares some fantastic tips on email marketing,\u00a0 <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2023\/11\/07\/affiliate-tracking-software\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">tracking<\/a>, using AI, and how he keeps his campaigns relevant and profitable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you prefer listening to our interview, here are your quick links:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Check the interview on Spotify:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe style=\"border-radius:12px\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/21Z2ckZsymcB3abpO5nppg?utm_source=generator&#038;t=35\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameBorder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"\" allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\"><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<p>So, let\u2019s jump in and hear all the insights Jonathan has to offer!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> How did you start in affiliate marketing? <\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> I think my online marketing journey goes back to 2012 when I was running my own products. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s when I learned about <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2021\/06\/11\/optimizing-campaigns-with-a-tracker-and-facebook-capi\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Facebook Ads<\/a>, email marketing, and advertising in general.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-white-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgcolor has-white-background-color has-background\">And I think it was just a normal progression that, at some point, I discovered affiliate marketing. It was like love at first sight for me. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>Running my own products meant that every time I sold something, I had to handle the fulfillment, which took time away from the marketing side, which I enjoyed more. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2023\/02\/15\/tips-for-affiliates-and-media-buyers\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Affiliate marketing<\/a> solved that problem, I could focus on marketing only, and I was instantly hooked.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But it took a few years before I could make it work, to be honest.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> What kind of campaigns did you run when you started out in affiliate media buying? <\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> When I started, I was all over the place. There was so much to learn, and I felt overwhelmed. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>There are so many different verticals, geos, and traffic sources&#8230; push traffic, sweepstakes, pop traffic, and Facebook traffic. You can run dating, casino, weight loss, and so on. I didn\u2019t know where to start, so I tried everything to figure out what I liked. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>One of my first campaigns was push traffic on a sweepstake, and I remember my first conversion was on an Ikea sweepstake.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I\u2019m still working with the same affiliate manager from <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/docs\/integrations\/clickdealer-integration.html\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">ClickDealer<\/a>.&nbsp; She kept sending me offers, and we decided to try one offer after another until something worked.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> When testing these offers, were you doing campaigns with direct links or with landing pages?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img fetchpriority=\"high\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"Affiliate media buyer in email marketing about first conversion\" class=\"wp-image-11496\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-1-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> I split-tested both, but I think the first conversion was a direct link.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For many affiliates, that first conversion is when you realize, \u201cOkay, this is real.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Until then, it\u2019s all just theory. You read about other affiliates\u2019 success stories, but when you make your first conversion, it\u2019s like: \u201cThis is real, and maybe those stories are real too.\u201d Then you\u2019re one of them. That feeling becomes a reality for those who stay in the game, are consistent, and make it work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote has-white-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">That feeling becomes a reality for those who stay in the game, are consistent, and make it work.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> What types of campaigns and traffic sources are you running now? <\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Right now, it\u2019s mainly <strong><a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2023\/02\/06\/optimize-igaming-casino-campaigns-with-marketing-tracker\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">iGaming<\/a><\/strong>. I\u2019ve gotten really good at iGaming, media buying, and <strong>weight loss<\/strong>, it\u2019s evergreen. That\u2019s what I focus on right now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For iGaming, it\u2019s email marketing. Everything I do now is through email marketing. I started with direct linking, then moved to bridge pages, but I wasn\u2019t collecting emails. For those who run ads themselves, they know that advertising costs are always going up, and with all the spy tools, competition is fierce. So, when I began collecting emails, I created a source of traffic that only I controlled, even if competitors copied my <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2023\/07\/02\/lightening-fast-landing-pages-2\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">landing pages<\/a>. They can\u2019t copy my email list.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And I can reuse it for more campaigns. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Before, I\u2019d make just one conversion. Now, I can send emails daily with my email list, and sometimes users make two, three, or even four purchases. That\u2019s what really helped me become more profitable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> And then on that email list, you go on promoting affiliate offers. So, you buy traffic to build the list, and then you use that however you want.<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"Affiliate media buyer why the email list is an asset\" class=\"wp-image-11498\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> Correct. When I started in affiliate marketing, like with sweepstakes, I realized I was building lists for someone else. They were collecting the email addresses because with email marketing, they can sell different products. Eventually, I became my own offer owner, building my own email lists instead of building lists for others.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I have a few big lists, but each one is dedicated to a specific vertical. That\u2019s crucial. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you build an email list for one topic, stay relevant with that content. If someone signs up for weight loss content and I start sending casino offers, they won\u2019t be happy and will likely unsubscribe. So, if you sign up for weight loss, you get weight loss content.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> I think you also started or worked with an agency at some point, right? How was that? Did you find it more rewarding to work as an independent affiliate media buyer?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-11507\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-2-2-1-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> I started an agency because I couldn\u2019t grow my affiliate business the way I wanted. I hit a glass ceiling, a revenue limit I couldn\u2019t break through. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some friends who run agencies suggested I do client work. So, I tried it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>It was nice to be paid for work and not just results<\/strong>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>As an affiliate, you only get paid when you make a sale, but with an agency, you\u2019re also paid for building landing pages and creating ads. In consulting, you\u2019re paid for giving advice, and you don\u2019t need to spend money to make money, you\u2019re trading time for money, which was interesting for a while.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">As an affiliate, you only get paid when you make a sale.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>But my DNA is too much media buyer, too much affiliate. As affiliates, when we have a campaign that works,<strong> we go aggressive, spend more money<\/strong>, and try to maximize it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some clients, though, don\u2019t have that appetite; they\u2019re afraid to spend more. For smaller clients, even $5,000 per month is stressful. If you suggest increasing to $20,000, it\u2019s overwhelming for them. They don&#8217;t trust the revenue will be worth the investment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Plus, the type of copywriting I\u2019d use in ads and emails is often too aggressive for those new to marketing. They want everything polished and brand-friendly, which I understand, but you also need content that converts. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For example, if we have a deal that expires on Sunday, I\u2019d send emails reminding people daily until Sunday. For some, that\u2019s aggressive, but for us [affiliates], it\u2019s normal. <strong>If you don\u2019t remind them, you\u2019ll make fewer sales.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Some might see it as annoying the customer by pushing too much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But if you don\u2019t do it, you\u2019ll make fewer sales, and it&#8217;s frustrating if you\u2019re not earning enough. That\u2019s why I returned to affiliate marketing only. Now, I just do affiliate marketing and consulting for friends and colleagues.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> Do you work by yourself, or do you have someone helping with the copy and creatives? You use AI to help you?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan:<\/strong> I have a few freelancers for websites, server stuff, and landing pages, programming, changing language on landing pages, that kind of thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I use <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2023\/01\/23\/top-7-ways-optimize-marketing-chatgpt\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">ChatGPT<\/a>, but only recently. It\u2019s <strong>great for<a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/yQVLoENq0E8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"> coming up with angles<\/a><\/strong> or customer research. You can ask ChatGPT: \u201cWhat are the top problems someone has who wants to lose weight with the keto diet?\u201d and it\u2019ll list out problems. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>It helps with initial ideas, but I usually rewrite parts manually.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I don\u2019t use chatGPT too much because I focus on a few verticals, like iGaming, so I know what content works. Sometimes, I ask chatGPT to create ten versions of an email that perform well, which is helpful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">chatGPT is <strong>great for coming up with angles<\/strong> like: \u201cWhat are the top problems someone has who wants to lose weight with the keto diet?\u201d<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> What challenges did you have building your email list initially? Is it straightforward now, or were there specific obstacles at the start?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"Email list is the biggest asset for an affiliate media buyer\" class=\"wp-image-11499\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-3-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> In the beginning, building an email list came with significant challenges, most people building lists through paid ads face the same ones. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>When you\u2019re using paid ads, you\u2019re <strong>putting a lot of money upfront<\/strong> with no guarantee of an immediate return. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You\u2019re not seeing a \u201cday one\u201d ROI, where you invest, and then suddenly, the list makes you money. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You might bring in a little revenue from a small offer or something similar, but that\u2019s just part of the initial process. If you don\u2019t understand the long-term value of list-building, it might look like you\u2019re just losing money every day. But the reality is, you\u2019re investing in something that will be profitable over time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Having a budget upfront is critical. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>A budget and a plan to monetize your list as you build it is essential. It takes <strong>patience and realistic expectations<\/strong> because you can\u2019t assume you\u2019ll put $1,000 into ads, build an email list, and instantly turn that into $5,000 in profit. That just doesn\u2019t happen. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You need a significant number of subscribers before you\u2019ll see a break-even point and then eventually profit. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>That\u2019s one of the biggest challenges I see. Some people will build up an email list, say they reach 500 subscribers, and they\u2019re still not profitable. They keep spending on ads to grow it, and when the profits don\u2019t come fast enough, they give up.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">You need a significant number of subscribers before you\u2019ll see a break-even point and then eventually profit. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>It\u2019s common for people to give up if they don\u2019t have a clear strategy. If they don\u2019t understand the investment part of it, they won\u2019t get to the point where they\u2019re profitable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> Many affiliate media buyers are buying traffic to build a list and simultaneously running offers through email. It\u2019s an ongoing process, right?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"Affiliate marketing media buyer using email campaigns\" class=\"wp-image-11501\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-5-2-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> Yes, and that list needs to be maintained and updated regularly. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Think of it like the software you\u2019re building: you\u2019re putting in a lot of time and money upfront without expecting an immediate return. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But you don\u2019t feel like you\u2019re wasting time or losing money because you know that, eventually, you\u2019ll have a fully developed product that\u2019s ready to make money. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Building an email list is similar: you have a building stage that requires investment, time, and patience.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-black-color has-text-color has-link-color wp-elements-2fd5ae411a24943c97ff01328a1e02be\">Your <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2024\/08\/20\/why-building-your-email-list-is-top-priority\/\">email list is almost like your product<\/a>. It\u2019s an asset you\u2019re developing, and as you grow it and nurture it, the more valuable it becomes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you think of the email list as your \u201cproduct,\u201d the better you build and maintain it, the more you\u2019ll get out of it in terms of revenue down the line.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">Your email list iIt\u2019s an asset you\u2019re developing, and as you grow it and nurture it, the more valuable it becomes. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> And what, in your opinion, makes a good email list? What elements or steps go into creating an effective list? When you\u2019re collecting emails, how do you attract quality subscribers?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> Well, it starts with having a good lead magnet, something that gives people a clear reason to sign up. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Depending on the vertical, this can vary. <strong>Sweepstakes or bonuses<\/strong> tend to work well. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For instance, in the <strong>casino space<\/strong>, you might offer something like: \u201cSign up and get a $100 bonus if you spend $100.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>People are attracted to things they can win, so bonuses like that work well. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For a <strong>weight loss<\/strong> list, I might offer a free recipe book, like: \u201cMy 10 Best Keto Recipes.\u201d It\u2019s a valuable freebie that gets people interested, and once they\u2019re on the list, they start receiving more content that\u2019s relevant to them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"has-white-background-color has-background\">Bonuses and freebies make signing up a no-brainer, and that\u2019s really the key. <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<p>The email content has to stay relevant to what they originally signed up for. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If someone subscribes for keto recipes, they should keep receiving keto-related content. If they signed up with the idea of winning a bonus in the casino niche, the content should stay focused on that topic. Sending unrelated offers, like a sweepstake for an iPhone to a keto-focused audience, would make subscribers feel misled and cause them to unsubscribe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> So, would you say that relevance and consistency in what you\u2019re sending them are essential?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"Relevance in email marketing for an affiliate media buyer\" class=\"wp-image-11503\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-6-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> Yes, absolutely. Relevance is everything. People subscribe for a specific reason, so keeping the content in line with their interests is key to maintaining a good list. If you stray from that, they\u2019ll lose trust and interest, and your list will start to shrink. Staying true to the content they signed up for is what keeps them engaged.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The more relevant your content, the more likely they are to click through and make a purchase. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>With a well-built list, you\u2019re not only gaining their interest but also setting yourself up for repeat conversions. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>For example:<\/strong> if someone\u2019s on a keto list and buys a keto product, they\u2019re more likely to buy another keto-related product in a few months if you\u2019re consistently offering valuable content. You\u2019re creating a lifetime customer relationship by keeping the content relevant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> That brings me to my next question. What makes an email marketing campaign successful?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> The first thing is relevance. Your emails need to be aligned with what the subscribers signed up for, <strong>relevance is number one<\/strong>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The second reason is more economic: email marketing works best when I can promote multiple offers to the same user.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I can promote multiple offers over time. This approach gives each subscriber a lifetime value. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Without an email list, if you buy a keto supplement from me, that\u2019s one sale only. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>But if you\u2019re on my email list, maybe two months from now, you buy another keto product. Then three months after that, you might buy yet another. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>So instead of just one sale, I\u2019m getting multiple sales from the same person.<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And the best part is that <strong>with email marketing, you\u2019re barely paying anything to promote these products, <\/strong>because email marketing is so affordable. You\u2019ve already paid to acquire the subscriber, so the extra sales don\u2019t have the same high costs as ads do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">Without an email list, if you buy a keto supplement from me, that\u2019s one sale only. But if you\u2019re on my email list, maybe two months from now, you buy another keto product.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> So once you have the list, you can keep using it to send different offers over time. Do you typically send multiple offers in the same email, or do you focus on one product per email? What have you found to be more effective?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Jonathan Bouchard (an expert in affiliate email marketing) about split testing\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/-XMhDLxtNJo?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> I usually rotate different offers through <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/testing\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">split-testing<\/a>. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>For instance, with keto supplements, the emails aren\u2019t about the product brand directly; they tell a story. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If you\u2019re familiar with the content on landing pages for <a href=\"https:\/\/youtube.com\/shorts\/qp6CrS05kuY?feature=share\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">VSLs<\/a> (video sales letters) from platforms like ClickBank or <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2024\/09\/18\/anna-gita-on-writing-affiliate-insider-and-optimization-techniques-for-affiliates\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">MaxWeb<\/a>, you know it\u2019s always a story format. The email might introduce the story, but the goal is to get the subscriber to click the link and watch the full video.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>The VSLs tend to be long videos, but they convert. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I might write something like: \u201cA doctor discovered this new method that burns fat\u2026\u201d then say:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p> \u201cClick here to watch the video.\u201d <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>They click the link, which takes them to a video, and from there, the conversion happens. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Sometimes I rotate offers in the background, so people are directed to different VSLs. When I find one that converts really well, I stop the rotation and send all traffic to that single offer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I love split-testing, especially with email traffic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Q:<\/strong> Yes, I love split-testing too! I wanted to ask, is tracking as crucial for you as split-testing is?<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image size-large\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"538\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8-1024x538.jpg\" alt=\"Tracking is necessary for an affiliate media buyer\" class=\"wp-image-11509\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8-1024x538.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8-300x158.jpg 300w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8-768x403.jpg 768w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8.jpg 1200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8-70x37.jpg 70w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/11\/Jonathan-8-850x446.jpg 850w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Jonathan Bouchard:<\/strong> Absolutely. I split-test constantly. Every day I\u2019m rotating campaigns in different geos and with different offers. I check the results, and whatever works best gets the most traffic.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><strong>Tracking is necessary<\/strong>. You really can\u2019t make decisions without data; it\u2019s like flying blind. You need to know what\u2019s working. Without data, it\u2019s impossible to understand what\u2019s working, where to put your budget, or which offers to prioritize.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>And there\u2019s something interesting I learned through media buying and email marketing: I am not the customer. I\u2019m not the one buying keto supplements, or playing in an online casino, for example. My tastes don\u2019t matter, the customer\u2019s preferences do. I can\u2019t look at two landing pages and think: \u201cThis one looks better, so it must perform better,\u201d and just send traffic there. That would be a mistake.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>With <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2024\/07\/16\/master-email-marketing-tracking-techniques-expert-guide\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">split testing<\/a>, I can test both options. Sometimes, the nicer-looking one wins, but sometimes the simpler one performs better.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Without that split test, I wouldn\u2019t know, and I could end up sending all my traffic to an offer that only converts at half the rate of the other.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>In a split-test rotation, for example, I might be <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/2024\/08\/01\/a-b-testing-your-email-marketing\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">testing<\/a> two or three different offers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>If I see one is generating 50 cents EPC and another is bringing in $3 EPC, it\u2019s an easy decision. It doesn\u2019t matter if the landing page is plain or fancy, if it has a higher EPC, that\u2019s the better option. The numbers tell you the truth.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<blockquote class=\"wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow\">\n<p class=\"nobgblock has-white-background-color has-background\">It\u2019s all about data. It\u2019s about what actually converts, not what we think should convert. Tracking makes that clear.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Conclusion<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>That was the first part of our interview with Jonathan Bouchard. His insights on data-driven email marketing, audience engagement, and the affiliate marketing landscape have given us much to think about. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Stay tuned for the second part of the interview in the <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/category\/champions-of-performance-marketing\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><em>Champion of Performance Marketing<\/em><\/a>, where we\u2019ll continue exploring the strategies that shape the future of digital marketing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>You can get in contact with Jonathan on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/iamjonathanb\/\">Linkedin<\/a> or <a href=\"https:\/\/www.instagram.com\/i.am.jonathanb\/\">Instagram<\/a>!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/creators.spotify.com\/pod\/show\/champions-of-performance\/episodes\/Jonathan-Bouchard-on-Email-Marketing--Data-Driven-Campaigns-e2r58dt\">Here is the full interview on Spotify<\/a> so you can easily listen to it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Here you can find the full interview with Jonathan:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Jonathan Bouchard: Expert Insights on Affiliate Marketing: Email Marketing Secrets\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/rwz59bfNc1c?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-media-text alignwide is-stacked-on-mobile\" style=\"grid-template-columns:20% auto\"><figure class=\"wp-block-media-text__media\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"200\" height=\"200\" src=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/julia-avatar-small.png\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-2975 size-full\" srcset=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/julia-avatar-small.png 200w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/julia-avatar-small-150x150.png 150w, https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/julia-avatar-small-64x64.png 64w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 200px) 100vw, 200px\" \/><\/figure><div class=\"wp-block-media-text__content\">\n<p>Author: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/julia-draghici\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Julia Draghici<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-small-font-size\">Julia is the CEO of <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvlab.pro\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">CPV Lab<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/cpvone.com\">CPV One<\/a> ad trackers. She has 15+ years experience in the software industry, from development to management. For more than 7 years she is helping marketers get the best out of their marketing campaigns by using a performant ad tracker. Passionate about entrepreneurship, business and performance marketing, Julia loves helping people!<\/p>\n<\/div><\/div>\n\n\n\n<input type=\"hidden\" id=\"hidLocation\" value=\"https:\/\/af.cpvlab.pro\/\"\/>\n<script>var clpconfig = { \"clcsr\" : \"1\", };<\/script>\n<script type=\"text\/javascript\" src=\"https:\/\/af.cpvlab.pro\/landing.js\"><\/script>\n<script type=\"text\/javascript\">checkdirect(36,123)<\/script>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Welcome to a new episode of Champion of Performance Marketing! I\u2019m Julia Draghici, and today, I\u2019m thrilled to sit down with a very special guest, Jonathan Bouchard. Jonathan is a true expert in affiliate marketing with years of experience in email marketing, media buying, and more. In our chat, he opens up about his journey,&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":11545,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[203,211,33,34],"tags":[9,268,270,198,244,271,272,124,267,273,269,274],"class_list":["post-11441","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-champions-of-performance-marketing","category-cpa-marketing","category-marketing-industry","category-media-buyers","tag-affiliate-marketing","tag-affiliate-media-buyer","tag-campaign-tracking","tag-cpa-marketing","tag-email-marketing","tag-email-metrics","tag-email-optimization","tag-igaming","tag-jonathan-bouchard","tag-nutra","tag-split-testing","tag-vsls"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.7 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Art of Affiliate Marketing: An Interview with Jonathan Bouchard (Part 1) - 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